West Point Center for Oral History: Foundations Interview Clips

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The Black History Project at West Point and the United States Military Academy Library gratefully acknowledge the West Point Center for Oral History and those who have contributed to this collection and exhibition of oral histories, especially:

Lieutenant Colonel (R) David R. Siry, Director of the Center for Oral History

Lieutenant Commander (R) Scott Granger

Lieutenant Colonel (R) Frederick H. Black, Jr., Student Success Instructor, Center for Enhanced Performance (CEP)

USMA Library Archives and Special Collections

National Archives and Records Administration, College Park, MD

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SGT(R) Sanders Matthews, Sr.

Sergeant (Ret.) Sanders Matthews traveled to West Point in 1939 to enlist in the Army. He taught horsemanship to cadets, officers, and family members, as well as performing menial tasks reserved for African American soldiers in the segregated U.S. military of that era. Here, he addresses both the rewards and frustrations of being a Buffalo Soldier.

Click on the links below to hear about Mr. Sanders's experiences:

Discusses motivation for joining the Army, particularly the impact of seeing Black soldiers in uniform

Experiences completing basic training at West Point, broad discussion of racism and service in a segregated Army

Continued experiences of segregation and racism

Various duties on West Point, touching upon impact of discrimination upon duties

Experiences around the time of Truman’s order to desegregate the armed forces—discusses fears about mistreatment, rocky first experiences with integration, and lingering discrimination at West Point and in Highland Falls

Discusses feelings about and impact of West Point, emphasizing importance of respect

More on treatment at West Point. Discusses an annual two-day dance hosted by Buffalo Soldiers. Superintendent and staff would attend on day 2, with limited availability for other officers who all wanted to attend. “That’s when the officers began to treat you real nice.”

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Mr. Percy Squire

Percy Squire graduated from the United States Military Academy in 1972 as an Infantry Officer, but he quickly shifted his focus and began taking steps to earn his Law Degree. Currently, he practices Law in Columbus, Ohio

In this interview, Mr. Squire talks about his time as a cadet, his tenure as the President of the Contemporary Affairs Seminar (CAS), and his role in several initiatives related to improving race relations at West Point.

Click on the links below to hear about Mr. Squire's experiences:

Experiences as one of only a few Black cadets in his company during Beast

Diversity and cultural change among the Corps and the faculty

Behavioral Sciences Club (later Contemporary Affairs Seminar) as a means of building community among Black cadets at West Point

Connections between Contemporary Affairs Seminar and larger Black Power Movement

Experiences of racism within the Corps of Cadets

Experiences in organizing a concert featuring The Supremes and Stevie Wonder to benefit Sickle Cell Anemia research. Importance of leadership and support from faculty and superintendent

Black cadets’ responses to proposal to establish a Confederate Memorial on Trophy Point

Experiences of racism intersecting with the proposed Confederate memorial; petitioning superintendent for redress

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GEN (R) Lloyd J. Austin, III Secretary of Defense

General Lloyd J. Austin III graduated from the United States Military Academy in 1975. In this interview, he describes his childhood, his years at West Point, and his career in the Army through his time as a company commander. He discusses his mentors throughout his early years, including classmates, senior Cadets, Officers at West Point, and leaders in the Army who provided inspiration and positive examples. Throughout the interview, he discusses his challenges and his successes.

Click on the links below to hear about Secretary Austin’s experiences:

High school in Thomasville, GA and the decision to serve within the context of the Civil Rights Movement. Service and West Point as a source of hope for a meritocracy

Discusses treatment in the context of race. “Initially everybody treated me like any other plebe,” but found as the year goes on that there were some with other views. Discusses bonding with other Black cadets

Building community with African American cadets across multiple classes and the importance of mentorship by more senior Black cadets. Calls out Percy Squire as a true leader whose mentorship was invaluable. Also discusses significance of larger cohorts of Black cadets in any given class

Reflects upon differences between relationships with Black classmates versus relationships with classmates of different backgrounds

Discusses treatment from faculty. Points out that there were only a handful of Black faculty members, but “didn’t sense an effort to treat me differently from my white classmates.” Faculty willing to work with him while needing to “catch up” because his educational preparation in south Georgia public schools during his childhood was not up to par. Also discusses importance of mentorship from Black faculty members—calling out Gorham and Fred Black in particular

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COL(R) Frederick H. Black, Sr.

COL(R) Fred Black recounts his memories from over twenty six years of active duty service as an Infantry Officer and as a Professor at the United States Military Academy. In the video, COL Black discusses the constants and the changes he observed over his years of service, both at West Point and in the Army at large.

Click on the links below to hear about Mr. Black Sr.'s experiences:

Growing up in the Army, father turns down a promising opportunity because it meant his children would be denied the opportunity to attend a well-regarded but segregated school

Commissioned form Howard University ROTC, one of the two regular army commissions from his class. Branched infantry. Culture shock was on arrival at first duty station (Ft. Bragg). Remembers billboard: “Welcome to Fayetteville, North Carolina – the home of the Ku Klux Klan.”

Discussion of what it was like to be a African American and a new member of the faculty in 1977. Discusses the relative dearth of Black officers on staff and faculty at the time

OIC of the Gospel Choir. Some discussion of CAS and more discussion of the Gospel Choir as havens for Black cadets. Has to explain to the Superintendent how and why the Gospel Choir is about far more than singing

USMA minority recruiting efforts in the 1980s begin to involve the Gospel Choir as an arm of recruiting outreach

Value of organizations like Gospel Choir in showing that Black cadets were at home at the Academy

Black staff and faculty as important sounding boards and mentors for Black cadets. Fewer observations of racial bias by early ‘90s due to increasing prevalence of open and honest conversations about race

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MAJ(R) Pat Locke

Having enlisted in the Army in 1974, Priscilla “Pat” (Walker) Locke attended the U.S. Military Academy Preparatory School before entering West Point with the Class of 1980, the first to include women. In this interview, she discusses her decision to join the Army, the culture shock she experienced at West Point, the myriad challenges she faced as a woman and an African-American, and the life lessons she passes on to aspiring leaders.

Click on the links below to hear about Ms. Locke's experiences:

Experience at USMAPS. Only Black woman in a group of 20 in an accelerated program to join the class of 1980. Found academics challenging due to a lack of preparation at Mumford High School in Detroit

Experiencing R-Day—seems to her to be a segregated space. First class to include women—out of 119 women, only 2 were black

Struggles with communicating effectively—became isolating and her overriding concern for her first year at the Academy

On the difficulty of being both Black and a woman in the class of 1980

Feels out of place even among Black cadets because of class

Importance of support

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GEN(R) Vincent K. Brooks

In this interview, General Vincent K. Brooks discusses his initial interest in West Point, his arrival at USMA, the introduction of women into the Corps of Cadets, the challenges he faced as an African American, and his time as First Captain.

Click on the links below to hear about General Brooks's experiences:

Visit from an African American recruiter and seeing his older brother’s experience is what sold him on attending West Point

Influence and experience of Brooks’s father, who succeeded despite complications of a desegregating Army. Mentions early mentorship from long-serving Black officers

Discusses family dealing with bias and racism when he was a child, and how it affected his view of and initial reluctance to serve in the Army

Diversity among Black cadets and experiences in the class of 1980 and at West Point. Importance of Contemporary Affairs Seminar and Gospel Choir as avenues for building a stable Black community at West Point

Experience of being the first Black cadet appointed as First Captain, and initial external responses to the news. Importance of confidence-building words of reassurance from LTG Goodpaster

Reaction from Black graduates and senior officers to Brooks becoming First Captain—sense of community achievement

Dealing with perceptions that achievements and commands are awarded because of race. Comments diversity as a deliberate institutional action and on moral courage of leaders who recognized when the time was right for change

Drawing inspiration from and connection to past notable Black graduates, going all the way back to Flipper

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CPT Simone Askew

In this interview, Askew talks about her childhood and attending West Point. She reflects on lessons she learned from her roommates, from applying for scholarships, and from leading the Corps. She discusses some of her professors, and developing an appreciation for the faculty. She describes her year as First Captain, and recalls some of the advice and criticism she’s received. Finally, she talks about what West Point means to her.

Click on the links below to hear about CPT Askew's experiences:

Racial climate in high school; mother’s example in developing values of equity and equality

Evaluating different service academies’ racial climates when deciding to attend West Point

R-day experiences with diversity in the ranks

Cadet life: multiracial barracks rooms, CAS, the West Point Gospel Choir

Selection as First Captain

Advice from former First Captains and surprises encountered in the role

Impact of anonymous criticism, particularly involving racial and gender stereotypes

What West Point has meant to her

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Links to full Oral Histories:

Sanders Matthews, Sr., Oral History

Percy Squire Oral History

Hon. Lloyd J. Austin, III, Secretary of Defense Oral History

COL (R) Frederick H. Black, Sr. Oral History

MAJ (R) Pat Locke Oral History

GEN (R) Vincent K. Brooks Oral History

CPT Simone Askew Oral History

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